Ron Johnson and Mandela Barnes clash on public safety, abortion in first debate

Barnes defended his position to end cash bail and instead base defendants’ potential release on their risk to others, saying people should not be able to buy their way out of prison.

“Sen. Johnson may not have encountered a problem that he can’t buy his way out of, but that’s not the reality for the majority of people in this state,” he said at the Wisconsin Broadcasters Association debate.

“We have a huge problem, skyrocketing crime,” Johnson said in response, then called out Barnes for supporting reduction of the prison population.

To address violence, Barnes said Congress should fully fund schools. He also said there should be well-paying jobs in communities.

Johnson said the priority for addressing violence should be fully funding police. He then targeted Barnes, saying he supported defunding police. Barnes has consistently denied the charge. But the lieutenant governor has signaled support in the past for reducing police funding, CNN reported Friday.

Johnson came out against universal background checks to buy guns, saying additional gun control laws wouldn’t work.

“If gun control were the solution, it would’ve already been solved,” he said.

But to the extent that laws already exist to mitigate gun violence, he said they should be enforced. He called for renewed faith and strengthened families to reduce gun violence.

Barnes said he supports background checks to mitigate gun violence.

2020 in focus

Johnson said former Vice President Mike Pence did the right thing by rejecting former President Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. He also called the revelation that people close to Trump tried to get the senator to deliver phony electoral college ballots to Pence a “non-issue.”

Johnson repeatedly used the mention of the Jan. 6 riots to pivot to civil unrest in the summer of 2020.

“If you want to talk about rioting, look at what took place in Kenosha,” Johnson said.

Barnes defended Gov. Tony Evers’ handling of the Kenosha riots, which Republicans have said was inadequate and worsened the unrest. He said Pence did the right thing on Jan. 6.

Barnes went after Johnson for calling to move Social Security and Medicare from mandatory to discretionary spending programs. Such a shift would require congressional budgetary authorization every year — something Democrats say could lead to eliminating those programs. Johnson denies wanting to dismantle them and has said he wants to preserve them.

As to keeping those programs solvent, Barnes suggested raising taxes for the wealthy, adding that Social Security and Medicare should be kept as mandatory spending programs.

“The greatest threat to Social Security and Medicare is completely out of control deficit spending and our growing debt,” Johnson said in return, adding that he wants to preserve welfare programs by focusing on fiscal policy.

Court decisions

As to federal abortion policy, Barnes said he would vote to codify Roe v. Wade.

“(Johnson) said that if women don’t like the laws of their state, like the 1849 criminal abortion ban we have here, he said they can move,” Barnes said. “I can’t think of a more callous, out of touch or extreme position to take.”

Johnson pushed back, saying Barnes didn’t support any limit on abortion access. The Oshkosh Republican called again for a referendum through which voters can decide what the limits of abortion should be. He did not say how he would vote on the measure.

“This has been a divisive issue for 50 years because nine justices made a decision for all of us and it didn’t solve the problem,” he said.

Johnson dismissed the possibility that the U.S. Supreme Court would overturn its 2015 decision upholding the right to same-sex marriage.

“This is another scare tactic by the left,” Johnson said, adding that the country had more pressing problems.

Barnes noted that many people didn’t think the landmark abortion case Roe v. Wade would be overturned, adding that same-sex marriage was a civil right he would back if elected to the Senate.

Climate change

On climate change, Barnes focused on flooding and its impact on family farms. He called Johnson out for having dismissed climate change in the past.

Johnson said he doesn’t deny climate change but questioned whether anything could be done about it. He said electric vehicles in Florida are exploding because of Hurricane Ian.

“You can’t spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a problem that is not solvable,” Johnson said.

The debate came after two polls last week showed Johnson with a lead over Barnes. The race is leaning toward Johnson, according to political handicapper the University of Virginia Center for Politics’ Sabato Crystal Ball. The Cook Political Report with Amy Water rates the race as a toss up.

There is another U.S. Senate debate Thursday from 6 to 7 p.m. Madison residents can watch that debate on WMTV (Ch. 15).